What Would A GMFCA Merger Look Like?

"Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54) 08/31/2015 at 22:09 • Filed to: what if, general motors, fca

13

100

Fiat Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne is still on !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , and seems to be the only one who thinks it’s a good idea. GM has no interest in such a merger, so I don’t see how it can actually happen. But if it did, what then? The two current competitors have a great deal of overlap in their current lineups. How would they make a merger work without adding a Department Of Redundancy Department, Repetition Division?

Keep reading on Right Foot Down or continue below

In my vivid imagination, I went down to the toy store and bought two Lego sets, General Motors and Fiat Chrysler. Then I imagined myself as the hypothetical head of GM / Fiat Chrysler Automobiles (call it GMFCA, just so I don’t have to keep typing the full name), and how I would take these Lego sets and combine them into one super set of cars and parts.

Trim The Fat

Ironically, I’d say the Chrysler brand itself should be the first to go. Mercedes tried to save them and gave up, leaving behind pseudo-Mercedes styling and parts with German complexity and sub-par build quality. A few years ago I had a Chrysler Sebring rental car when visiting DC for a few days. That car looked cool on the outside, almost like the mini-Merc it was intended to be. The interior appeared fancy as well, until you realized that it was made of low quality hard plastics far below the standards of German luxury. When I drove it, it didn’t take me long to realize that it was the same crummy old Sebring drivetrain under the skin. All Chrysler had done was put lipstick on a pig. I realize that the Chrysler 200 that replaced the Sebring is a better quality car, especially heading into its second generation. But I think the public perception is that Chryslers are still lower quality rental cars, and that’s an image the new GMFCA doesn’t need.

Maybe drop the Fiat brand in the US as well. Too many people remember the name as an acronym for “Fix It Again, Tony” from their last venture here. Plus, their specialty is small cars, which are unpopular in the US. Certainly keep the Fiat 500 in its various forms alive and well elsewhere in the world.

On the GM side, although Buick is not a popular brand in America, it’s very popular in China. So keep Buick as the friendly face for that market, and Opel/Vauxhall in Europe, but drop it in America.

Between Chevy, GMC, and Ram, GMFCA has three truck brands. That’s two more than necessary. The new kid on the block, Ram, should go away. Dodge has a long history of building trucks before Ram was split off into FCA’s truck brand, but it’s usually brought up the rear among the Big Three. I’ve never understood why Chevy and GMC sell the same trucks under different names. Some insist that they’re completely different, but I simply can’t tell. It’s like insisting that the Scion FR-S and Subaru BRZ are completely different cars. Yes, suspension tuning and option packages are different, but they’re fundamentally the same. So drop the GMC clones of Chevy pickups, and have them focus strictly on heavy duty commercial vehicles. Though there’s still nothing wrong with slapping a GMC badge on a heavy duty flatbed truck based on a Chevy pickup, or a large box truck based on a Chevy van. Acknowledging their common roots instead of denying it would be a strength, not a weakness.

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Lean And Mean

Take what’s left, and make it awesome. Jeep is doing a great deal to keep FCA going at the moment. They’re doing it right, so keep doing what they’re doing. They’re a distinct enough brand from Chevy trucks that there isn’t much overlap in their lineups. Plus Jeep is an image brand as much as the brand for the serious off-roader.

Dodge also needs to stick around. Until recently they shared Chrysler’s image of low quality rental cars, but the Charger and Challenger have changed all that, even before the 707hp Hellcat models came along. The Dart hasn’t seen much success, but turning it into a 3/4 scale version of the Charger could turn that around, especially with rear wheel drive like its namesake. If the Dart became 90% of a BMW 2 Series for half the price, I’d be extremely interested. Add R/T and ACR versions, plus racing support like Dodge did for the Neon in the 1990s, and it could be a real winner. They should focus on cars like these, sporty yet affordable for the everyman. This keeps it distinct from Chevy, which would focus more on comfortable, non-enthusiast side of the equation.

But what about the Camaro and Corvette? Some people have said for years that Corvette could or should be spun off from Chevrolet as its own brand. I say go for it. The current Corvette model becomes the Stingray under the Corvette brand, and takes aim at the best sports cars the world has to offer. Watch out, Porsche 911 – we’re coming for you. The Camaro slides into this brand as well, moving upmarket and becoming a more serious sports car rather than a pony car. Some improvements from the Dodge side may be in order as well. Imagine a Camaro Hellcat, or a Stingray Hellcat. I’m not sure what to do with the Viper, which competed directly against the Corvette. It may not make the cut, and go away as many other well loved Dodge and Plymouth performance cars have. Or, rather than focusing on world class performance like the Stingray, it would become a more old school hot rod, with lots of power and radical looks, but maybe not the overall supercar package that the Stingray would become. If the Corvette brand doesn’t want to be associated with this image, maybe the Viper could remain a Dodge, as a low production halo car for the American muscle brand.

That leaves Cadillac, which has made huge improvements over the past ten years as a luxury brand, and Alfa Romeo, which is also reinventing itself lately with cars like the 4C and the upcoming Giulia. I think there’s room for both brands to exist side-by-side in GMFCA. Cadillac will focus more on the American idea of a top of the line luxury car. Yes, that idea has morphed into a more European perspective, but cars like the CTS and ATS are nailing it, and the luxury SUVs are quite profitable. Alfa, on the other hand, remains the true European sports car in the case of the 4C, and sport sedan in the case of the Giulia. The brand name is worth a great deal here, clearly defining what makes Alfa different from Cadillac, even though they may eventually share some parts under the skin. Each appeals to a different enough demographic of the luxury vs. performance spectrum for both to exist.

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

The Lineup

Chevrolet : Good basic cars, trucks, and crossover/SUVs for everyone.

Dodge : Sporty affordable American style muscle cars.

Buick/Opel/Vauxhall/Fiat : Asian and European cars for those particular markets. Not sold in America.

Jeep : SUVs and off road vehicles, same as now.

Cadillac : American style luxury cars and SUVs, focused more on luxury than performance.

Alfa Romeo : European style luxury cars and crossovers, focused more on performance than luxury.

Corvette : World class sports cars, with the Stingray, Camaro, and maybe a Viper. This is GMFCA’s halo brand.

That’s a lot of different brands, but GMFCA is a huge company. There may be some overlap here and there, but that’s never stopped GM, Chrysler, or Fiat before. There is enough variety here that pretty much whatever you want, GMFCA has it.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

I’m not saying that Sergio Marchionne is right. Such a merger would be a huge help to FCA. But GM is doing quite well on their own, and doing it right. Well, except for that Chevy/GMC truck thing – that’s just silly.

(Photo credits: Yahoo! Autos, World Encyclopedia of Cars, Chevrolet, Digital Trends, Gearheads)

Urambo Tauro > Justin Hughes 08/31/2015 at 22:21

25

Just when you thought the FCA logo was bad...

TheHondaBro > Justin Hughes 08/31/2015 at 22:23

0

ew lmao

BigBlock440 > Justin Hughes 08/31/2015 at 22:28

2

A few years ago I had a Chrysler Sebring rental car

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

When I drove it, it didn’t take me long to realize that it was the same crummy old Sebring drivetrain under the skin.

Uh, not sure what you were expecting?

I’d say the Chrysler brand itself should be the first to go. Mercedes tried to save them and gave up,

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

The interior appeared fancy as well, until you realized that it was made of low quality hard plastics far below the standards of German luxury.

Contradictory statements. The cheap interiors of the Diamler Era were a direct result of ze Germans forcing Chrysler to cut interior costs by something like 50%.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Justin Hughes 08/31/2015 at 22:39

18

Since according to most reports, the Ram is better than the GM twins and at one point was outselling the Silverado, I’d drop one of them. Getting rid of the Cummins and replacing it with the Duramax is an awful idea.

Justin Hughes > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 08/31/2015 at 22:41

2

The idea would be for GMFCA to design and build new trucks combining the best of both. There would be one brand, but you could get a Cummins in a Silverado.

Noah - Now with more boost. > Justin Hughes 08/31/2015 at 22:44

26

Italian styling and American V8s? That's worked before

Amoore100 > Justin Hughes 08/31/2015 at 22:58

46

A holy f*cking mess. I would rather have them both die than have this happen (and I’m not an American car guy in the slightest...) And where is Lancia? If we’re doing fantasy, Lancia has to make a comeback or else I’m not playing.

And this has to be their first model. A new Delta Integrale.

Justin Hughes > Amoore100 08/31/2015 at 23:03

1

No argument from me!

Mr. Malaise > Justin Hughes 08/31/2015 at 23:12

10

Buick should be kept around and produce only large, boat-like classic American sedans. I demand bench seats and a column mounted gear selector as well.

YALE70 > Justin Hughes 08/31/2015 at 23:13

1

This was not the Camry I asked for at Hertz.

speeddemon807 > Justin Hughes 08/31/2015 at 23:14

2

it will dilute the brands altogether.

YALE70 > Amoore100 08/31/2015 at 23:15

4

This. Just this.

Jedidiah > Justin Hughes 08/31/2015 at 23:26

1

I agree with this for the most part.

Axe GMC, but sell the Rams as Dodges to profit off of fierce brand loyalties.

There is also no need to sell Alfa in the US — it simply would not be profitable. It’s brand image is poor and obscure. Stuff like the 4C can be sold in one of GMFCA’s higher end dealers, but as a captive import not a revival of the brand.

Chevrolet: Basic cars, trucks, SUVs with good options list. Camaro should still be here as a halo car for brand image. Corvettes should still be sold on Chevrolet dealers, but not explcitly as a Chevrolet — it will have it’s own identity

Dodge: Muscular mid-market cars, Ram Trucks, and Suvs with good options list. The highly optioned packages will serve as halo cars. You can have performance mid sizes and full sizes in both coupes and sedans.

Jeep: Off-road and mid to high market suvs (Imagine a Wagoneer made from the best parts of the Durango and Suburban)

Buick / Fiat / Opel Vauxhaull / Daewoo etc: Non-US market cars; some profitable ones can be sold at appropriately priced dealers as captive imports

Cadillac: Luxury Cars and Executive Sedans, You could also sell the Chrysler 300 here as a Cadillac

Maserati / Viper / Corvette / Ferrari - or GM Exotic. You could also sell highly optioned Cadillacs and Dodges here too. You could also introduce low volume European stuff here. Imagine the respect GM would get if it sold all of these in one spot. “Visit your local GM Exotic dealer today.”

Dealers could have this structure:

Dodge, Chevrolet and Corvette, Jeep

Corvette, Cadillac, GM-Exotic

Wheelerguy > Justin Hughes 08/31/2015 at 23:28

2

Lancia has to be the more in-between brand, like a starter Italian exotic Pokemon with a more rugged, down-to-earth and retro-modern look and feel.

Xan1765 > Justin Hughes 08/31/2015 at 23:29

1

Wasn’t there an article here involving an interview with someone involved in the GM negotiations with the government for their bailout not to many months ago?

If I recall correctly, Uncle Sam told GM to kill the GMC brand as well, until they saw the books and realized the kind of profit margins they were making on the badge. I could understand dumping dodge trucks (cheaper brand that doesn’t seem to have some cult like following), but you literally might cause WW3 if you killed Chevy or GMC. I certainly think a lot of Former GMC guys and current Chevy guys would defect from the whole brand also.

Anyway, the thought of not knowing which shoddy quality fiat or Chrysler parts were snuck onto a car and where would make me wait at least five years before ever trusting the reliability of FGMCA

dblock187 > Justin Hughes 08/31/2015 at 23:29

0

From a supplier point of view, this would make everything a logistical nightmare and most likely cause shutdowns to a lot of lines...

flabberboozled > Justin Hughes 08/31/2015 at 23:30

19

If the Dart became 90% of a BMW 2 Series for half the price, I’d be extremely interested.

Ahhh yes, the sirens - fans - calling for a car company to make something that they like. What’s that? If only someone would make a cheap rear-wheel drive sports car? Oh, we’ll burn the internet down for that.

Oh, but $25k is too much for a BR-Z, I could *theoretically* buy a WRX for that much. Or Tavarish something. And why’s it so small? And why’s the interior so crappy? And why’s it so slow? Why can’t you just build me a small rear-wheel drive car that has 350+hp, handles like a Ferrari, can be insured like a Sienna, looks like a Delta Integrale, has an interior made of whale penis and cost half as much as an STI? I’d burn down the internet for that. You know what, I’ll just go ahead and buy it used 10 years from now. That’s truly the Jalopnik way.

Wobbles the Mind > Justin Hughes 08/31/2015 at 23:30

2

So GM merger with Fiat Chrysler works if they get rid of Fiat and Chrysler.

I think GM and FCA could go the Hyundai and Kia route. Seems to work well for them. Honestly I can’t believe how valuable Jeep is. Seems like FCA could start over from scratch using just Ferrari, Jeep, and any brand for the sedans.

NeonBlaqk > Justin Hughes 08/31/2015 at 23:32

7

I have now had two North American 500s. You will have to PRY THE KEYS FROM MY COLD DEAD HAND. The 500 is certainly catching on, I see plenty here in bumfrick Boise, never mind the glut of them in major cities. Go to San Francisco, there’s one on every block. I got hooked when I lived in central Denver and even though I no longer have to fight for scraps of parking, I’ve stuck with it and upgraded to an Abarth. There’s also plenty of other subcompact/micro cars that do just fine in the US. The most direct comparison would be the MINI Cooper. Just position the 500 as a “baby Alfa” the way MINIs are “baby BMWs.” Then there’s things like the Toyota Yaris and Honda Fit, certainly enough of those around. My point is that tiny cars are not just a European thing, they certainly have their place in the American market and it would be a terrible crime to take the best of the bunch away from us.

427zeo6 > Justin Hughes 08/31/2015 at 23:33

6

Factory engineered LS Jeep swap......I'm good with that!

lostinspacecamp > Justin Hughes 08/31/2015 at 23:42

3

How do you not already know the answer?

Jared Glentz > Justin Hughes 08/31/2015 at 23:42

1

i dont get the buick hate....... i see a shit load of them where i live and from what ican tell there sales are pretty good here in the U.S.

Kyree S. Williams > Justin Hughes 08/31/2015 at 23:43

1

Wow, you really thought about this.

Wingman > Justin Hughes 08/31/2015 at 23:43

1

The real problem is the culture of FCA. Lipstick on a pig is the perfect descriptive phrase for that company. Why on earth would GM want to buy into that when they’re fighting the battle to change their own culture. If GM wanted to do anything they should just raid the styling department a bit and let the rest swirl down the drain.

Just Cars for Joe Bryant > Justin Hughes 08/31/2015 at 23:46

3

I am sure GM hasn’t forgotten the ass raping they got from the FIAT Auto fiasco. Pretty sure their security guards have orders to fire on sight if ol’ Sergio tried to show his face around the Ren. Cen.

lone_liberal > Justin Hughes 08/31/2015 at 23:48

0

I don’t think that a limited number of RWD muscle cars is enough to keep Dodge dealers going. They have to have some bread and butter offerings, and by that I mean trucks. I know RAM isn’t technically Dodge but for the most part they’re sold at the same dealerships. In a combined company only Jeep would remain of what was Chrysler.

50fridge > Justin Hughes 08/31/2015 at 23:50

0

I really hope this merger never happens. It seems like it would drag both companies under.

PeteRR > Justin Hughes 08/31/2015 at 23:51

3

One Jeep to rule them all, One Jeep to find them, One Jeep to bring them all, and in the wilderness bind them...

I’m pretty sure we’ll be selling Jeeps to the Arcturans in 2000 years or so.

“Best all terrain vehicle in the quadrant, by gum!”

Mjr. Elvis Newton > Justin Hughes 08/31/2015 at 23:51

1

I stopped reading when you said a sebring looked cool

El Rivinado > Justin Hughes 08/31/2015 at 23:54

3

I wouldn’t kill Chrysler, because Chrysler has got one ace up it’s sleeve that you left out.

This thing. If Chrysler were to be cut, we would lose this. This car has everything, good looks, affordability, cheap luxury without feeling too cheap, power, comfort, it’s recognizable, and it’s one of the biggest sellers in its class. It’s the last RWD, four door, American made, sedan that anyone has, and if you get rid of Chrysler, that means you get rid of this. Like it or not, the 300 is one of the most recognizable and popular cars in its segment, and it’s also synonymous with Chrysler in general. if anything, getting rid of Chrysler would hurt for GMFCA more than help it. You can’t market it as a Cadillac, it doesn’t fit in the lineup and would look out of place, you can't market it as a Dodge, it’s a mid-large size Luxury car so it wouldn’t fit in its lineup, so the only solution would be to kill it. If you kill it, you’ve gotten rid of a money maker for the company and you’ve just hurt any potential money that could come into the company.

Jared Glentz > Justin Hughes 08/31/2015 at 23:54

2

i dont think this justin knows how run car companies at all....... gmc sells a lot of trucks as does chevy..... if it wernt making money GM wouldnt keep it...... so why would you want to get rid of it.... same with buick. they are very nice cars that have decent sales here in the US keep it.

even if GM were to take on FCA they wooud not just drop everything they’ve been working on for the last 100+ years and just change it all up..... especially if things didnt work out and considering every company thats ever tried helping chrysler corp that would be most likely..... GM learned the hard way that in this day and age you cant have too many brands.....heck they still have the most i think.

then theres all the diehard mopar fans.......they’d rather commit suicide than buy a dodge from GM........

CalBearsFan99 > Justin Hughes 09/01/2015 at 00:01

1

Doesn’t matter, won’t pass anti-trust.

dataPOG > Justin Hughes 09/01/2015 at 00:04

6

Imagine a Camaro Hellcat, or a Stingray Hellcat.

The Z06 comes with 650 HP and torques. The ZR1 will definitely be over 9000 HP and enough torques to speed up the earth’s rotation in 5th.

herald > Amoore100 09/01/2015 at 00:04

3

THIS!!!!!!!!!!

Rocko > Justin Hughes 09/01/2015 at 00:05

0

If this hypothetically happened, it would be a damn shame that Dodge would take over the spot that was held by Pontiac.

GrauGeist > Justin Hughes 09/01/2015 at 00:06

0

Keeping Dodge? Axing GMC / Buick? Adding Alfa? Nope.

Dodge is a direct competitor with Chevy, just like Pontiac was, and GM already killed Pontiac. Kill Dodge.

GMC makes mad money for GM, and it would be stupid to remove it for Dodge / Chevy. GMC stays, for sure, but adds a few specialist Jeep “halo” models that serve the same purpose as Corvette does in the Chevy showroom. The watered-down Jeep stuff disappears like the Chevette. This is how GM should have integrated HUMMER H1 & H2 (only) into their lineup, BTW.

Buick is the future of GM, and doing just fine under the global Eurocar family Opel / Buick / Vauxhall / Holden. Buick needs to be sold in the US for heritage reasons. Plus, it’s growing share and getting younger every day. Killing a growing, de-aging brand is just terrible.

Alfa , OTOH, is 2 models, which could merge under Caddy. The Alfa coupes would make a nice Caddy “halo” coupes, and already have the Alfa-numeric names. Creating a whole new brand is too much work, but Cadillac 4C? Cadillac 8C? Gold.

Corvette stays (and grows) under Chevy, because it is the ultimate expression of Chevy value - delivering 911 performance for Cayman money.

Fiat is really just Geo , and that didn’t work very well, did it? Fiat doesn’t sell much, and competes directly with the bottom Chevy. Kill Fiat.

In short, the only thing GM wants is Jeep, the rest is pure trash. Chevy is better than Dodge and Fiat, so those FCA brands get shitcanned. GMC and Jeep are pure profit, so they stay. Buick is better than Chrysler and Alfa, so the other FCA brands get shitcanned.

To summarize:

Chevy (Corvette)

GMC (Jeep)

Buick

Cadillac (Alfa)

Sergio probably gets more for Jeep alone than FCA combined.

GrauGeist > Noah - Now with more boost. 09/01/2015 at 00:08

2

Chrysler tried that...

WINNING!

Howie > Justin Hughes 09/01/2015 at 00:11

2

Moving Camaro upmarket? Mustang would thank you immensely! GM appears to be doing this with the 6th gen leaving the Mustang for the entry level crowd it will be interesting who things shake out.

As for whats left I’d say the Viper would probably die rather than accompany the Corvette and same with the Challenger.

I'd also hazard that GM's LT engine would replace the Hemi.

Rick Cavaretti > GrauGeist 09/01/2015 at 00:12

2

Where's your car history? Fiat does small cars well. That’s what their known for. Keep Fiat as the king of small cars, move everything else upmarket.

Rick Cavaretti > NeonBlaqk 09/01/2015 at 00:14

2

^yes.

El Rivinado > GrauGeist 09/01/2015 at 00:16

3

The TC had a V6, that was sourced by Mitsubishi.

benn454 > Justin Hughes 09/01/2015 at 00:18

2

GMC is pure profit for GM.

They spend pennies gussying up a Silverado and get stacks of Benjamins in return.

It would be throwing money away.

TGRIP > Noah - Now with more boost. 09/01/2015 at 00:18

2

Well... When you say "worked"...

GrauGeist > Rick Cavaretti 09/01/2015 at 00:23

0

While Fiat does fine in Europe, American’s don’t buy a lot of Fiat. Go check the sales charts. In the US, there’s no need for Fiat.

That said, Fiat could stay as a global sub-brand under Opel / Buick / Vauxhall / Holden, replacing their City cars and Subcompacts.

derekson > Justin Hughes 09/01/2015 at 00:26

2

You would lose a ton of marketshare, as you’d be giving up many of the loyal GMC and Dodge/Ram customers who would shop Ford and Toyota if their preferred brand was no longer available.

The rants against GMC make no sense at all. GMC is probably GM’s most profitable brand. It requires almost 0 R&D as it is rebadging, and they sell at a premium over the equivalent Chevy (especially when you get into the Denali models). And there are, in fact, loyal GMC buyers who would not automatically just buy a truck with a bowtie on the hood if GMC went away.

miken > Justin Hughes 09/01/2015 at 00:27

0

What a fiasco. Stop talking about Sergio’s wet dreams and get back to talking about CARS.

Captain_Spadaro > Justin Hughes 09/01/2015 at 00:27

5

A train wreck.

JusticeBoner > Justin Hughes 09/01/2015 at 00:28

2

I disagree about two changes.

1. The camaro being spun off the the Corvette brand. I think it would be better to keep the camaro as a lightweight mustang competitor and instead move the heavy ass challenger up market as a more raw M5 “fighter”.

2. Chevy being rebranded as the “basic transportation”brand. SBC’s are synonymous with cheap speed (see “lol LS swap it”) and the value the brand has to the older generation.

El Rivinado > Jedidiah 09/01/2015 at 00:30

3

Sorry, I just can’t agree with the 300 being sold at Cadillac. For several reasons.

1: The 300 is very different from what Cadillac is trying to do, the 300 is more a budget luxury sedan, while Cadillac is trying to be America’s BMW. Those are just two different segments, and two that can’t really work together on the same showroom, UNLESS, Cadillac goes back to the whole “RWD, soft riding, large luxury boats” that are what defined them before, than you can offer it.

2: The 300 has a very distinctive style, and the Cadillac lineup has a distinctive style, and you can’t really have both on the same showroom unchanged. You offer the 300 in it’s base form, you have a rather obvious and out of place car on the showroom. You give it an Art and Science makeover, you lose the appeal of the 300 and it instantly becomes a “in name only car”

3: The 300’s different market segment means the only car it will compete with is the Chevy Impala (if Chevy decides to keep it in this hypothetical scenario), and it will cannibalize sales as it will offer a slightly more upmarket experience AND it has the advantage of both RWD and AWD compared to the Impala’s FWD only setup, as well as a V8 option if you so desire. Even if it can’t fit in with Caddy’s lineup, the General won’t deal with a rival company’s product cannibalizing sales from the Bowtie models, so it’ll axe it anyway.

I wish that wasn’t the case, but it’s the only course of action I see.

I could be wrong though.

DodgeyRammer > Justin Hughes 09/01/2015 at 00:37

5

I stopped reading at “drop ram.” Forget you buddy!

JMoney > Justin Hughes 09/01/2015 at 00:59

1

Holy crap, you’ve just about made me want this to happen. If it gets rid of Buick and Fiat in America...

You did forget Maserati, which could have a place as a high-end luxurious sports car maker. The Ghibili would be pointless though as you could just make a super-luxury Cadillac instead, but other models could be added to go with the GT.

F1guy hates duck billed F1 cars > Justin Hughes 09/01/2015 at 01:01

0

I love your concept and execution.

But, no. Never. GM and Chrysler should never get married. Just like GM/Ford or Chrysler/Ford.

These companies have separate identities. My GTO is a GM product, just like my Cadillac. My dad’s truck is distinctly Ford, and my 300C is distinctly Chrysler.

The bottom line is, a Camaro and a Challenger being related is just disgusting. I love the Camaro, Challenger, and Mustang, but the idea of them being in the same family isn’t ok.

Yes, I want a Mustang, and a Challenger. But what makes them unique is the culture their brands have created. Mustang guys aren’t GTO guys, and I love the differences in perspective. I get Mustang blokes who swear by the Modular, and shun the LS. Naturally I’m of the opposite opinion.

Keep it that way. Keep the friendly drag strip rivalry alive. Sergio needs to visit Sacramento Raceway on a Wednesday night to see how wrong he is.

KARNITO > Justin Hughes 09/01/2015 at 01:03

4

Bad idea because merger is to kill the competition.. That’s what it is all about! So, which halo cars shall be axed? Is is the Corvettes or the Vipers, and a bunch of other cars... We have seen what happened to Daimler-Chrysler merger; nothing good for Chrysler but instead MB get to sell Full Size vans, and more platforms and engines etc...

DoglegFirst > Amoore100 09/01/2015 at 01:06

2

First model? Stratos based on the 4C chassis, with a V6 wedged in.

AddMustard > Justin Hughes 09/01/2015 at 01:08

1

In the entire HISTORY of bad ideas....

DoglegFirst > flabberboozled 09/01/2015 at 01:10

0

Looks like a Delta Integrale? Of all the Italian cars to pick, a hatchback is a strange one. On top of that, S4 before Integrale.

KremerK3 > Justin Hughes 09/01/2015 at 01:14

2

Something like this?

DoglegFirst > El Rivinado 09/01/2015 at 01:14

0

GM has a contract with GM of Australia to bring over a certain number of Holden chassis. That’s why we got a GTO, G8, and now SS. In this hypothetical GMFCA, rebranding the SS as the 300/Charger would be a goldmine. The FCA twins get off of dealership lots before a GM salesman can explain how the SS is different from a Malibu. Also, the SS has the quality that the 300/Charger needs.

Amoore100 > DoglegFirst 09/01/2015 at 01:15

1

If we’re going all out why not the Ferrari V8 engined Stratos Concept from a few years back? It’s not like FCA doesn’t have control over Ferrari or anything...

DoglegFirst > PeteRR 09/01/2015 at 01:17

1

And the 4.0s in every older Jeep will still be running.

DoglegFirst > Amoore100 09/01/2015 at 01:23

1

Ferrari said no. They don’t make the F430 anymore. FCA doesn’t actually own the Stratos trademark anymore (I’m pretty sure Michael Schostek does). That thing was astronomically expensive. Like hundred-grand-titanium-exhaust expensive. Pininfarina was chosen as the manufacturer, and they have extremely limited capacity.

As much as I loved that car (I have a lot of pictures if it saved, have read every article I could find, and it is my Kinja profile picture), it was way too extreme. Also, it would never have went rallying, which is one of the most important things.

Axial > Justin Hughes 09/01/2015 at 01:26

1

Alfa is worth a great deal here? According to whom, our little close-knit circle of enthusiasts?

Amoore100 > DoglegFirst 09/01/2015 at 01:37

0

True, but what I heard was that it was also available to be built on the 458 chassis, and the new 488 would probably work as well...also, the original Stratos was expensive and didn’t sell greatly either so it’s not like this would be any different...just pry the molds from Pininfarina’s hands and find some way to make it (a bit more) cost effective. What I liked about the Stratos concept was that it was very close to the original because of the sharing of Ferrari parts and the insane attention to detail...also, I’m sure Schostek is just as eager as the rest of us to see the New Stratos put into production so he would likely relinquish the name for some share of the profit for his design...and with enough ground clearance and a good diff, you could probably rally anything if you had the courage and the money...

Color-Commentary > Justin Hughes 09/01/2015 at 01:45

0

The real questions here are:

1) what *platforms* could be combined? It’s not as big a deal to sell an Alfa Guilia, a Cadillac ATS, a Chrysler 300, and a next-gen Camaro, all with distinctly different flavors, if they all are built on the next-gen Alpha platform and can share major expensive components.

2) What engines / engine families could be combined? While the LSA vs. Hellcat debate will get a lot of clicks, the real question here is around the high-volume engines. Is the 1.4L turbo from the Cruze better positioned to meet global fuel economy / emissions standards than the 1.4L TigerShark? Could the 3.6L Pentastar replace the generally sub-par GM corporate 3.6L V-6?

3) What manufacturing plants could actually be shuttered? This will have as much, if not more, to do with political pressure and union rules than the merits of any particular facility.

Tyler > Justin Hughes 09/01/2015 at 01:55

4

Get rid of the Ram?! Hell imagine a Ram cummins with an Allison transmission! That thing would be unstoppable!

Hoonin a Holden in the USA > Justin Hughes 09/01/2015 at 01:58

0

Wasn’t the reason GMC was kept alive during the bankruptcy because it was the only one that was profitable? They may not be that different from the Chevys but I’d keep it around since apparently rebadged vehicles still print cash.

mikemikemotorbike > GrauGeist 09/01/2015 at 02:02

2

I know you’re just trolling, but still, Chevy better than dodge? At what, enbeigeness?

AlgonquinBear > Justin Hughes 09/01/2015 at 02:09

0

“Maybe drop the Fiat brand in the US as well.”
aaaand i stopped reading, they JUST got them back over here, and they’re starting to pop up here in Canada in their beautiful little red sports car glory, even come direct from the factory in delicious white wrappers like a candy bar,

LOOK AT THIS

WHY DO YOU HATE BEAUTY JUSTIN?!?!

La Mia Ferrari > Justin Hughes 09/01/2015 at 02:25

2

How could you leave out Maserati and Ferrari? Did you not know they are part of FCA?

Also the Viper does not in fact compete directly with the Corvette. Maybe with the Z06 variant, but even then the Viper is a manual-only, hand-built, low-volume, V10 American exotic with a higher price range.

And you’d kill the Fiat 500 and its 30,000-40,000 annual sales? Really?

Do you have Internet?

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > GrauGeist 09/01/2015 at 02:58

1

These cars are too often used as an instance of Chrysler’s failing. They were handmade, comfortable, remarkably well-crafted convertibles using high-quality materials. The bodywork was done by De Tomaso, wheels by Fondmetal, and the assembly by Maserati. Struts and shocks came from Fichtel and Sachs and were designed for these cars while the then-well received Daytona suspension geometry was carried over. Improved brakes and Teves ABS were used. The turbocharged engine mentioned in that ad put out 200hp using a block, crank, and rods cast by Maserati along with application specific IHI turbo, Crane-designed twin cams, Cosworth 116v head, and Mahle pistols—mated to a Getrag transverse 5 speed, which was also considered excellent for the time. By far the most prominent complaint regarding the Q cars is the source of the solution to what was so wrong with the Biturbo it succeeded; parts interchangability, quality, and reliability were actually acceptable!

GrauGeist > mikemikemotorbike 09/01/2015 at 03:29

0

How about simply starting and running. Compared to Dodge, Chevy is Lexus-like in reliability. or even better, finding buyers. Chevy outsells Dodge by a considerable margin month after month. Actually, Chevy alone outsells FCA combined, month after month.

So yeah, who’s trolling? Oh, that’d be you.

GrauGeist > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 09/01/2015 at 03:32

0

The TC is the same problem as the Aston Cygnet - it goes too far downmarket for what the higher brand aspires to, so it is a complete failure of marketing and branding to cheapen a formerly highly-considered brand. It’s the same reason that Rolex won’t co-brand with Casio, nor Tiffany with Wal-Mart.

Freakusaurus-Rex > Justin Hughes 09/01/2015 at 03:39

1

Pontiac Vibe and Toyota Matrix were built together. Dodge Stealth and Mitsubishi 3000GT. Mitsubishi Eclipse and Eagle Talon. and on and on... we all know of the mergers, not counting ones owned by the same corporation such as Trans-ams and Camaros and so on.

Junker_CM > Justin Hughes 09/01/2015 at 04:11

1

I feel that the cars would explode and GM would find a way to hide it for several years before finally getting found out and causing several deaths.

Junker_CM > Amoore100 09/01/2015 at 04:13

1

Does it put out 300 HP?

pip bip - choose Corrour > Justin Hughes 09/01/2015 at 04:26

3

what would GM/FCA merger look like?

an absolute shitfight!

Kuzspike > Justin Hughes 09/01/2015 at 04:28

3

Dodge : Sporty affordable American style muscle cars.

That worked out well for Pontiac.

365Daytonafan > Justin Hughes 09/01/2015 at 05:05

0

You missed a brand out - Maserati which is still part of FCA although Ferrari is being branched off.

Actually Maserati could share a platform with the Corvette for a new Gran Turismo, and the Ghibli/ Quattroporte could be twinned with the CTS?

duurtlang > Justin Hughes 09/01/2015 at 05:20

0

Small cars: Fiat

Mainstream cars: Chevy (US), Opel/Vauxhall (Europe)

Muscle cars: Chevy

Semi-luxury: Buick (US/China)

Stylish sporty cars: Alfa Romeo

Luxury barges: Cadillac

Trucks: Jeep (crossovers), RAM (work trucks).

Delete : Dodge, Chrysler, GMC, Lancia

Not a lot of overlap here. It could work. Just trim all that lard. The idea that Alfa Romeo and Cadillac should merge is absurd as they appeal to totally different demographics and they’ve traditionally built polar opposites of each other. And who’d miss Dodge, Chrysler or GMC?

iceman > Amoore100 09/01/2015 at 05:20

1

I’d be happy as hell if that thing made it to production and we got it. Lancia, gm Ford or whoever. Somebody needs to build it

ohh-75 > Urambo Tauro 09/01/2015 at 05:21

2

I would opt to call it MCFAG instead.

ohh-75 > Justin Hughes 09/01/2015 at 05:23

1

The ram could become a jeep pick up. Either make it more luxurious or more off road. Or both. Just don’t make it the standard 1500 style of gm and ford.

vondon302 > Justin Hughes 09/01/2015 at 05:26

0

If you live in se michigan it’s armegeddon, Cats sleeping with dogs! Its the end of days!

The doctoR53 > Justin Hughes 09/01/2015 at 06:22

1

COMMING SUMMER OF 2116

After his uncle grandfathers death (yes it’s possible look it up) Sergio Marchionne (ChArlie sheen) is murdered by a hit and run he teams up with Mary Barra (Susan Sarandon) to find the murderer. They plan to build a super car equipped with the highest technology supercomputer and top of the line safty features. When all hell breaks loose. Every piece of equipment fails, the car has a mind of its own and instead of bringing the man responsable to justice, it sentences him to death.

Prepare to sit back, eat your Italian combo and have it sink LIKE A ROCK in the best movie of 2016.

TOTAL RECALL: COME UNA ROCCIA

D-Dubya > Amoore100 09/01/2015 at 06:32

2

No kidding, the overlap between the two companies is enormous. There is no way this could be beneficial for the companies involved or the markets (consumer and financial).

Falutin Free > Noah - Now with more boost. 09/01/2015 at 06:34

4

New De Tomaso Pantera?

Equana > Justin Hughes 09/01/2015 at 06:49

0

This is just re-creating the “old” GM. Every carline for every taste, 2020 style. Replacing Pontiac with Dodge. Splitting Corvette off of Chevy (THAT should have happened LONG ago) and introducing Alfa into the mix. Not bad ideas, just not with Chrysler!

I can’t see this Merger from Hell ever happening. Much like BMW decided the entrenched Brit Culture at Rover and Land Rover were just to stuck-up-the-arse to accept their German Masters. The American Colonials prepared them for their current Colonial ownership by the Indians. Curry for everybody!

The Chrysler Culture rejected its German Blitzkreig after a few years (You VILL VORK undt you VILL make more PROFIT, undt dats undt ORDER!) and Daimler just gave up trying. Their Italian Masters obviously decided assimilation is futile MUCH quicker than their German counterparts and have decided only Americans can manage Chrysler well enough to get their investment back.

typhoon5000 > Justin Hughes 09/01/2015 at 06:50

1

A mess. That’s your answer to the title question.

Dy-no-mite Jay > Justin Hughes 09/01/2015 at 07:01

11

So Dodge becomes the new Pontiac, Jeep the new Hummer and that leaves Alfa Romeo as the new Saab and possibly Lancia as the new Oldsmobile.... It worked in the past, oh wait.....

sumfoo1 > Noah - Now with more boost. 09/01/2015 at 07:07

1

ford did it first (as always)

sgtyukon > Justin Hughes 09/01/2015 at 07:15

0

So, you’re saying that Dodge should become Pontiac. But Pontiac isn’t Pontiac anymore, so how well will that really work?

G42dog > Justin Hughes 09/01/2015 at 07:16

2

Your scenario would be the truly of then meeting on a rational way. In real life, they’d likely experience a bunch of infighting leading to less rational outcomes. In short, some degree of CF...

Mopar4life > ohh-75 09/01/2015 at 07:25

1

Coffe covered keyboard.

Thanks

Mopar4life > GrauGeist 09/01/2015 at 07:27

0

Which was powered by this.

Which was easily capable of over 350hp.

Making it a very awesome convertible.

Dr. Strangegun > GrauGeist 09/01/2015 at 07:30

0

Where’s the V8?

nermal > Justin Hughes 09/01/2015 at 07:30

0

You’re wrong about the trucks. Keep all three brands, consolidate underpinnings, and badge engineer them into distinct tiers, with overlap. You have a work / off-road brand (Ram), a mid-tier brand (Chevy) and a luxury brand (GMC). Keep the best options from all - for example, keep the FCA V6 and GM V8 gas engines, and the Cummins diesel.

Fuel_of_Satan > GrauGeist 09/01/2015 at 07:33

1

That’s an excellent comparison. It’s basically a Casio with some fancy detailing and a Rolex badge.

theshinobi01 > Justin Hughes 09/01/2015 at 07:33

1

No no no no you all have it wrong. If GM and FCA merge, Sergio is the first one to go, THEN WE CAN FINALLY GET PEACE AND QUIET.

Fuel_of_Satan > mikemikemotorbike 09/01/2015 at 07:36

0

You could say the exact same thing with the brands switched though. It’s like white Camry versus silver Camry. Chevy sells more, they stay. Isn’t that obvious?

Dr. Strangegun > Justin Hughes 09/01/2015 at 07:39

1

I cannot adequately describe in words nor can I find a suitable picture for the clusterf**k that GMFCA would be.

That said, I can’t shake the idea that Marchionne is executing some manner of massive head fake, thinking that FCA is somehow vulnerable to takeover and voicing this... lunacy, to make it unpalatable for any that would devour. The corporate world’s version of octopus blowing ink, or skunk marking.